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Post by philinla on Aug 3, 2007 21:30:09 GMT -5
That has got to be the move when Giambi comes back. Duncan and Phillips are both more valuable to the team.
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Post by michael123 on Aug 3, 2007 22:16:59 GMT -5
I agree Phillips and Duncan add much more value. Betemit is the Cairo upgrade
I do not want Joe forcing Giambi back in. Like last year when he did with Sheff, the chemistry got shot. I worry about Andy looking over his shoulder with Giambi there. I would only use him as pinch hitter and to give someone spot days off. It is not likely he is going to come back and tear the cover off the ball anyway. I know some may disagree, but Giambi slows us down and clogs the bases, and right now does not add much. He cannot play 1b. I like how we are going and hope Giambi's role is very limited.
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Post by David Goodman on Aug 3, 2007 22:37:20 GMT -5
There is no such thing as clogging the bases. Guys that get on base score runs no matter how slow they are. He should come back and play most games as the DH. This team has missed him greatly.
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Post by michael123 on Aug 3, 2007 23:06:43 GMT -5
We have done fine without him. Last year we plugged a square peg in a round hole w Sheff. It's not broke no need to fix. Giambi should not be in everyday.
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Post by philinla on Aug 3, 2007 23:18:59 GMT -5
Giambi should be in every day he is healthy enough to play. He is one of the top two hitters on the team.
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Post by michael123 on Aug 4, 2007 6:57:53 GMT -5
We may have to agree to disagree on this one. Giambi either walks strikes out or gets the homerun. That takes away some of the small ball we have been using of late(besides the home run surge which wont work in October). Who do you bench? Certainly not Melky. Jeter or Melky are not your ideal lead off hitters. When Damon is on he is a big help. There are many more questions to be answered by plugging Giambi in. Like last year when we feared the chemistry would be ruined, while I wont say it will be ruined b/c he is popula. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Shelly, Andy, and Melky have made more then a representative showing, and deserve to play.
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Post by David Goodman on Aug 4, 2007 7:45:51 GMT -5
We have not been playing small ball. A little running with the fast guys which will still happen. Giambi gets on base and hits with power. There is absolutely nothing negative about that. He's a much better hitter than Damon.
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Post by philinla on Aug 4, 2007 9:14:02 GMT -5
We've hit 17 homers in the last 4 games. That's not small ball. We have the most homers and runs in the league. And the highest OBP.
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Post by mpep on Aug 4, 2007 10:47:02 GMT -5
Not much to say except I agree with the thread title and the reason we're winning (big ball!)
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Post by michael123 on Aug 4, 2007 18:48:21 GMT -5
The Home runs will not continue at this pace. As Flaherty keeps saying every time he annouces the Yankees are playing better situational baseball. When we bunt runners over, or run from first to third that is something Giambi simply cannot do. The fact we are playing home run derby now with out Giambi only proves why we don't need him. I am not saying he should not get time, but not everyday. Why ruin what we have going. Not every run we scored is b/c of the homer. Moving runners up, and taking extra bases is what will win in October.
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Post by michael123 on Aug 4, 2007 18:49:58 GMT -5
This is not the bash Giambi thread, but we saw it last year how putting square pegs into round holes worked. When Damon is on he adds more dimensions to our lineup at the top, then Giambi does in his spot.
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Post by David Goodman on Aug 4, 2007 20:25:28 GMT -5
This is not the bash Giambi thread, but we saw it last year how putting square pegs into round holes worked. When Damon is on he adds more dimensions to our lineup at the top, then Giambi does in his spot. Giambi produces more runs than Damon. The more runs you score, the more likely you are to win. Giambi fits in the dh peg just fine.
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Post by michael123 on Aug 4, 2007 20:34:05 GMT -5
Melky or Jeter are not true leadoff hitters though..
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Post by David Goodman on Aug 4, 2007 20:35:43 GMT -5
Melky or Jeter are not true leadoff hitters though.. Jeter is a true leadoff hitter. He's done very well in that roll. Jeter's obp is higher than Damon and he's a great baserunner.
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Post by michael123 on Aug 4, 2007 20:44:14 GMT -5
We will agree to disagree. You make your case for Giambi to be in the lineup daily, I say until things are broken no need to disrupt the roll we are on. I personally think Jete's best spot in the lineup is 2.
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Post by David Goodman on Aug 4, 2007 21:03:26 GMT -5
We will agree to disagree. You make your case for Giambi to be in the lineup daily, I say until things are broken no need to disrupt the roll we are on. I personally think Jete's best spot in the lineup is 2. Jete hit leadoff for us a ton in 2000 and a bunch in the earlier years. He's good at it. Damon has made a lot of outs for us this year. I also think you always try to get better.
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Post by mpep on Aug 5, 2007 10:18:01 GMT -5
Damon's OPS is currently below league average for all positions combined as his 92 OPS+ indicates. A DH should be well above league average. Quite simply, Damon isn't getting the job done-he's not one of the players responsible for the Yanks recent surge (Cano, Melky, Abreu, Jeter, Arod, etc are.) Adding 150+ points to the DH slot increases a team's chances to win. Since the defense isn't altered at all, it's a net gain.
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yatqb
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Post by yatqb on Aug 5, 2007 21:44:18 GMT -5
"Giambi should be in every day he is healthy enough to play. He is one of the top two hitters on the team."
C'mon, Phil, you're saying he's 2nd to Arod, I presume. But better than Jeter, Cano, Matsui and Posada at this time? I think that's ludicrous.
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Post by mpep on Aug 5, 2007 22:45:40 GMT -5
It isn't ludicrous-it's a fact. When he's healthy, his OPS is better than any Yankee not named Arod.
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Post by philinla on Aug 5, 2007 23:18:34 GMT -5
"Giambi should be in every day he is healthy enough to play. He is one of the top two hitters on the team." C'mon, Phil, you're saying he's 2nd to Arod, I presume. But better than Jeter, Cano, Matsui and Posada at this time? I think that's ludicrous. Not ludicrous at all.
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Post by David Goodman on Aug 6, 2007 6:41:02 GMT -5
I agree with Phil and Mark. Giambi is the 2nd best hitter on the team when healthy.
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Post by oscargamble on Aug 6, 2007 12:00:35 GMT -5
Damon's OPS is currently below league average for all positions combined as his 92 OPS+ indicates. A DH should be well above league average. Quite simply, Damon isn't getting the job done-he's not one of the players responsible for the Yanks recent surge (Cano, Melky, Abreu, Jeter, Arod, etc are.) Adding 150+ points to the DH slot increases a team's chances to win. Since the defense isn't altered at all, it's a net gain. I don't think Damon is cooked. My impression he's played hurt most of the year and should have been on the DL for a period of time. Still I think Melky's contribution, taking his defense into account, probably exceeds even a healthy Damon's at this point. If they can't get value for him, Damon's role should be 4th outfielder -- vastly overpaid 4th outfielder.
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Post by oscargamble on Aug 6, 2007 12:01:48 GMT -5
That has got to be the move when Giambi comes back. Duncan and Phillips are both more valuable to the team. totally agree with this, particularly in light of the fact that Vitamin Betemit renders Cairo as useless and redundant as Grandma Shirley's old douche bags.
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yatqb
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Post by yatqb on Aug 6, 2007 16:55:06 GMT -5
So OPS is suddenly THE indicator of a hitter's worth? I guess that I disagree with that.
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Post by HomerSimpson on Aug 6, 2007 16:58:17 GMT -5
So OPS is suddenly THE indicator of a hitter's worth? I guess that I disagree with that. Don't compare Cano and Giambi or Jeter and Giambi...compare Damon and Giambi or Phillips and Giambi, because those are the two guys that Jason will likely take playing time from. And really, there's no comparison in the offensive abilities of Damon, Phillips and Giambi.
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yatqb
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Post by yatqb on Aug 6, 2007 17:14:48 GMT -5
Homer, that is obvious...and Giambi should clearly get more ABs than Damon (and Duncan, for that matter) as should Matsui and Melky. Damon should be a 4th outfielder/occasional DH once Giambi is back. But Giambi shouldn't play 1B imo, so Phillips's ABs shouldn't be affected by that but by Betemit's need for ABs.
But I'd argue that Giambi is being overrated by some here if he's compared to Jeter, Matsui, Cano, or Po (this year's version). I suspect that if he didn't have a no-trade, we'd see that he wouldn't be in high demand even with the Yanks taking on a bunch of his contract, and that says something. (I'm speculating, of course.) But Jeter sure isn't known for his defense, yet who do you think would have greater trade value, him or Giambi?
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Post by philinla on Aug 6, 2007 17:22:46 GMT -5
So OPS is suddenly THE indicator of a hitter's worth? I guess that I disagree with that. Suddenly? It's historically been the measure.
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yatqb
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Post by yatqb on Aug 6, 2007 17:26:11 GMT -5
Phil, you're saying that in all cases, OPS trumps everything else in measuring a guy's offensive contributions? I just don't agree with that, but that's OK. We can agree to disagree.
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Post by mpep on Aug 6, 2007 17:54:43 GMT -5
OPS is an excellent indicator. Obviously baserunning is a factor (though it's rarely not overrated), but how often you get on and how many total bases vs. ABs is a tough combination to beat. The fact that there's a huge 150 point difference between Damon and Giambi (the two top candidates for DH) certainly overrides the difference in baserunning. 150 point of OPS is a lot.
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yatqb
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Post by yatqb on Aug 6, 2007 17:57:06 GMT -5
mpep, it's a no-brainer regarding Giambi>Damon, as I said above. I was commenting initially about Giambi vs. Jeter, Cano, Matsui and this year's PO.
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